#these gay people exist. they are not 'bad representation' or members of the community you should shun. will IS your gnc king.

[bylertruther]

can i be honest for a second? i think it's weird how quickly and avidly a lot of people in this fandom turn down the idea that will is gnc, even though he... literally is? lol.

will is described in canon as being sweet, sensitive, gentle, highly empathetic, emotional, soft-spoken, and artistic. these traits are not inherently gendered, but instead traditionally stereotyped to be "feminine," especially within the era that this show is set. they're likely the main reason why everyone assumes he's gay to begin with.

in the st pitch he's described as wearing colorful clothes, and in the show joyce tells us that other kids are mean, laugh at him, and make fun of him for them, right before she calls him sensitive and says that lonnie used to call him queer, thus linking this all together and driving the point home to hopper.

we also know that people of all age groups—his peers, teenagers, and even adults—call him all sorts of gay slurs, some of which are aimed at and describing feminine, androgynous, or cross-dressing homosexual men—aka, "fairy."

everyone in hawkins wasn't calling will gay and making his life difficult because he did anything with other boys. they did this because he never fit the societal expectation for how a boy "should" act—especially not at the height of the aids crisis in reagan's midwestern america, might i remind you—which, to them, meant he had to be gay.

it's him not conforming to the "acceptable" or expected gender presentation for boys that damns him. will is visibly gay by their standards. will is gender nonconforming in the context within which he exists, and even now because the aforementioned traits are still stereotyped as being "feminine" and considered aspects of male gender nonconformity. we know better now than to assume a man is gay because he's nice and soft-spoken, but we cannot erase the context of the show, the canon material it presents, or the real homophobia of that era that still exists today.

it's also a big part of will's character, because it further proves that he doesn't have a chance of conforming even if he would ever want to, because he would have to change everything about himself in order to do so. it wouldn't be as simple as changing his clothes or picking up a new hobby. he'd have to harden himself, to become tougher, to not feel as much as he does. and that's just not will. will is sweet, gentle, and sensitive—no matter what consequences it all brings. he can't change and he hasn't ever expressed any interest in doing so. literally not even life-altering trauma was able to take that from him. it's just who will is.

if you erase that HUGE part of his character, literally the second thing we're taught about him in the first fifteen minutes of 1x01, then you're erasing a big part of his lore, characterization, motives, and the representation he provides to those with similar experiences.

like... this isn't offensive characterization / writing. we've seen will on our screen for years now—we know he's not a one-dimensional stereotype, and that he's obviously more than the rumors that circulate about him. accepting what the duffers put forth doesn't diminish anything about him, and this... aversion people have to accepting that makes other gay people who have shared a similar experience as will feel othered in a community where they're supposed to feel welcome in.

this is something that happens to millions of people around the globe. this is an important story and an important character that have both been treated with extreme care by the writers and the actor that plays him. why would you want to erase any of that? what issue do you have with gay people like will? because it says a lot more about you than it does him or the duffers.

[bonisonline]

Getting real fed up of some of the Vox Machina/Critical Role "fans" (slight vent)

Countless times I've seen people complaining about the most miniscule things in the show. Whether it's a slight dialogue change, a timeline shift or not enough/too much queer representation, people can just never be goddamn satisfied can they? I'll give some examples of complaints I saw under YouTube clips of Vox Machina/Critical Role C1 (DISCLAIMER: this is not me talking about genuine fans of CR or VM; just people who've watched the show out of boredom basically):

"Why did they cut out Vax's brotherly love comment to Percy in the show and instead make it about Vex? It ruins the scene." - well it's because in the show's current timeline, the main issue Percy and Vax had been facing is Percy killing Vex by not checking for traps. This had caused a lot of tension between Vax and Percy, and they didn't really have time to build a brotherly bond or have brotherly moments (aside from when Percy tells Vax he's got Vax's back in the Fey Realm). The show's timeline is moving a lot faster than the original campaign due to the CR team only getting 5 seasons with 12 lots of 20 minute episodes per season to work with as opposed to 115 lots of 4 hour long episodes, meaning there's not as much time to flesh out ALL the characters' relationships with one another (at least not on screen). If we're patient I'm sure we'll get more Percy and Vax brotherly moments.

"I'm tired of homosexuality getting the short end of the stick! Sucks that all of the main cast is straight." - Firstly, Vex, Vax, Scanlan and Keyleth are canonically bisexual. Just because someone queer ends up with the opposite sex, doesn't make them automatically straight. Secondly, the show is prewritten, and while the characters end up in heterosexual-presenting relationships it doesn't mean that their relationships are worse/boring simply because it's not Vexleth and Perc'ildan instead of Vaxleth and Perc'ahlia. The way the relationships are written are very fitting for each character, and I enjoy that the writing for these characters is not just "And he/she looked at them and realised he/she was in love! Yay!". Plus campaign 2 has two queer couples, so if Vox Machina not having enough homosexuality frustrates you you can always stop watching and wait for the Mighty Nein series to come out.

(To follow up to my last point about the Mighty Nien series, I also saw this person complaining that it "only has lesbians, no gay men" - so I guess Caleb and Essek don't exist now...)

"I felt bad for Zerxus until he mentioned he had a husband. Why are the characters always gay..." - On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are people who think Vox Machina is TOO gay, which makes me go "have you even researched the cast of Critical Role in the SLIGHTEST?" - obviously not, or else they'd realise how supportive the cast is of the LGBTQ+ community, how a few cast members are a part of it, and how CR actively supports and encourages diversity.

ANYWAY! That's enough venting. What I'm basically trying to get at is this: if there are elements of the show that makes it genuinely hard for you to watch, then stop watching. You don't have to watch a show if you don't actually like what you see on your screen. You can manifest it suddenly making all your headcanons/wishes a reality, but I think you'll just hurt your brain after a while.

[v-anrouge]

i almost never draw men despite being a gay homosexual fruity man so genderbends just really tickle my pickle however twst fans are so egregiously bad at doing genderbends??? do. people just think genderbends are longer hair, boobs, and an hourglass figure? fem!vil would not just be vil but with allat YOU WANKERS RAAAGGHHHHH. vil is feminine because hes a MAN and is breaking out of the norms of being a man. his femininity is crucial to his identity as a man. whatever he may be, he'll always be gnc, because the whole point about him is that he DESPISES stereotypical expectations of gendered presentation. he owns his masculinity while also being comfortable in his femininity. so if vil were a woman she'd have short hair, dress in typically masculine clothes, call herself a king-- fuck, vil would probably use he/him pronouns. all that wouldn't negate fem!vil's identity as a woman because her womanhood is based off being her truest self, of embracing the energy that makes her, her, even if it isn't stereotypically feminine, and breaking out of the norms is what gives her power and comfort in her identity. her womanhood IS breaking out of the confines that shackle women to this paragon of submissive perfection. it makes me mad when people waste the potential of genderbends especially since gender can add different and interesting nuance to a character given how the concept itself can shape and affect people's lives on the whole. not to mention, women are often given more shit for doing the exact same thing men do so it'd be interesting to see these characters changed to adapt to that. more people might be anti's of fem!vil than of og!vil. call her a manhater and a feminist that's weakening society and so much more horrible shit because every weak man just NEEDS to drag a strong woman down and humble her and though og!vil is already headstrong, full of confidence, and ready to give anyone shit, fem!vil would have to build her resilience even more against the raging misogyny she'd receive. she knows just how much the world hates women and gnc people like her and that's what motivates her even more to destroy society's narrowminded perception of gender. and you just know how butch women aren't even perceived as women by many members of the queer community-- she's a woman, and she's butch, masculine, etc etc and you'll know it. she won't take shit from both heteronormative people AND prejudiced queer people.

maybe im just speaking yappanese because twst doesn't really have the history of misogyny and sexism as the real world does however there is proof that there is toxic gender norms where we can see the toxic masculinity from the real world being reflected in epel so id take that as an indicator that we may share similarities in some of their societies.

anyhow point is that if you genderbend gnc characters like vil to just be the stereotypical representation of the gender you're bending tjem to, you're the person they hate the MOST. you're putting them in the box they DESPISE because you refuse to see all the effort they've put into their non-conforming identity and seeing them as nothing more than what you expect from them-- perceiving them in the constricting standard they're fighting to break. STOP MAKING ALL FEM!CHARACTERS SHORTER AND THINNER AND MORE CONVENTIONALLY ATTRACTIVE YOU SCAT STAINS!!!!! WHILE A PART OF WOMANHOOD AND UNDESERVING OF HATE, ITS NOT THE PARAGON OF WOMANHOOD BECAUSE THERE IS NO STANDARD TO IT AND TO DEPICT ALL FEM!CHARACTERS AS A MONOLITH OF THE SORT IS AN INJUSTICE TO THEM AS A WHOLE!!! you want a girlboss but can't even do girlbosses right what makes you think you can handle girlfailures or girldisasters OR GIRLINSANITY. women are not there for you to draw them pretty. they can be just as complex as their masc counterparts if not more than in some scenarios.

like fem!jamil would be even more tragic. fem!riddle too. fem!leona too. not to say that they aren't already full of existing nuance because they ARE and it's GREAT but fem characters are just so full of heart wrenching potential AND NO ONE TAKES IT UP RAGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

anyways im not even a girl kisser but i would kiss fem!rook because i fucking love it when girls are unfiltered and creepy and off-putting and disturbing and covered in blood. maybe im bisexual. who knows.

also i just think fem!malleus would be super cool like ahagha girllll you're SO autistic and strange and frightening pleasseeee talk to me about gothic architecture while i explode.

ANON U ATE LIKE HIGHKEY OH MY GOD PLEASE IM PUTTINGTTHIS IN THE MAIN TAG

i never quite understood why i always disliked vil genderbents specifically until like some time ago that i realized the reason i hated it it's because the way people draw it (hyperfemme) doesn't make sense for vil's character, it doesn't make sense that vil, as a man would dress feminine to fight gender roles yet if he was a woman that wouldn't happen and she would still be dressing feminine. genderbents r such an :/ topic because most ppl that make them take the characters make them shorter, skinnier, puts then in tight short clothes, gives them long hair makeup and idk man it always puts me off like being a woman is way more than that and despite the fact a lot of women do present themselves that way, making EVERY character be like that is just idk it FEELS wrong. i feel like most genderbents r just copy and pastes of the same gender roles slapped into a character carelessly just because and honestly it fucking sucks

[boneparrot]

Can I hear more about Asexual Franky Truth?

Of course! I'll try to explain my thoughts on Franky's sexuality in general (for the record, I headcanon him as a gay aroace man), but it mostly comes down to the fact that I'm aroace and like projecting onto my favourite characters. But if you want a less boring answer, here's some more reasons I came up with:

While I'm not claiming Franky's obsession with masculinity is inherently queer, the emphasis on striving to become something of men's dreams does come across as a little gay to me.

Prior to joining the Straw Hats, Franky saw himself as a failure due to blaming himself on Tom's death. We can draw parallels between this and the asexual experience, as a common part of that is to feel like something's "wrong" with you. With how allosexual mainstream society is, these thoughts can lead to feeling alienated, which creates a desire to find a community that will accept you. Franky was able to form a found family of other outcasts, and you know what they say about LGBT people gravitating towards each other.

Franky is a proud, self-proclaimed "perversion of nature" who takes any jabs at his gender expression as compliments. Cyborg pride? Gay pride. Additionally, it's a common sentiment among aphobes that asexual people are "freaks".

We never really see Franky react to women in the same way the other Straw Hats *cough cough* mostly Sanji *cough* do. Though this could be attributed to the fact that he's one of the more mature members, he never shows any romantic or sexual desire towards people. While he does acknowledge Robin and Hancock's beauty... who wouldn't? Even Luffy is able to tell someone when they're pretty, and he's an aroace icon. There's also the scene where he rejects Lola's marriage proposal, telling her he's "too super to settle down", as well as the scene where he casually kisses Kyuin, only to agree that hearing about love from inexperienced young women makes him "sicker than a bad drink". He just doesn't care.

Considering his nipples are light switches and his pelvis is extendable, I get the feeling he doesn't have a high desire for sexual activity.

I want to see more aroace representation like Franky and Luffy, rather than just the common stereotypes we see in media.

I think it works well with me shipping him with Brook. Now I'm DEFINITELY just projecting here, but as an aroace person, I'm more attracted to fictional characters than I am real people. Especially those with more monstrous features. Not that Brook isn't a human, but obviously someone like him is impossible to exist in reality. My point is, he doesn't have a dick, and he's probably open to all kinds of kinks.

I actually have a fanfic about this concept, but it's in WIP hell. Anyway, I hope that answers your question, and thank you for giving me an excuse to talk about this!

[adiarosefandoms]

Asexuality is Part of the LGBTQIA+ Community, and we Need to Talk About It

Something that needs to be brought to attention is the fact that even within the LGBTQIA+ community, there are still sexualities and genders being discredited. Beyond heterosexual and homosexual exists a spectrum on which every person lays, and while the media/public’s gotten better at displaying different parts of the section compared to how it once was, better is not synonymous with best. The queer community will seemingly always be in need of more representation, but we’ve finally had wins in some sexualities such as bisexuality and homosexuality with them getting some more attention and support. But again, better not best, more but not enough. There is still MUCH more work needed. Then there are the less talked about or defamed members of the LGBTQIA+ community. We all know the shameful ways the American government has been treating and degrading our Trans friends. Shielding the “public” away from them like they’re lepers, denying them healthcare, and creating all sorts of false stigma that does nothing but spread ignorance and hate. And it feels like we haven’t even begun to talk about all the different romanticisms that exist in the world. All of this is clear to me and anyone with a full heart and brain. But most of my knowledge, and all of my experience, lies in a sexuality that’s been shunned by seemingly everyone. Liberal or conservative, cis or intersexual, straight or queer. And that’s asexuality. Asexuality, represented by the purple, black, grey, and white striped flag, is defined as a sexuality in which a person actually feels no sexual attraction, desire, or emotions. Within the asexuality spectrum (yes, it’s a spectrum within the queer spectrum) are more specific sexualities in which one can feel sexual attraction only under specific circumstances or with specific people. By its very definition, asexuality is part of the queer community. It’s a sexuality different and existing independently from heterosexuality. Not to mention that before people in pink crocs and oversized hoodies drinking overly specific coffee orders started saying it stood for ally, the A in LGBTQIA+ stood for asexual. Yet, sometimes it seems as if the entire community that preached inclusivity and understanding regardless of formalities such as gender and sexual attraction, has forsaken us. Most people don’t even believe it’s real, or worse, they believe it’s not valid. They say, ‘you’re just having a dry spell’, ‘maybe you’re sick’, ‘you’ve never really given it a shot’, ‘just because those times were bad doesn’t mean you don’t like sex’, or ‘you’re just lying for attention.’ But I’d like to remind those that say such a thing that not that long ago, closedminded people were also saying ‘have you tried not being gay?’, ‘you can’t like both! you’re just closeted’, and ‘you were born a _____ so you’re a _____.’ Some recognition, ANY recognition, is needed, especially by members of the LGBTQIA+ community. I am by no means an expert in this area, but I am ace and have known that before I even knew there was a word for it. Below are resources with scientific data and personal experiences that will hopefully help people understand more about asexuality, so whether your queer or just an ally, please educate yourself and advocate for the ace community. Because we are a part of the LGBTQIA+ community, and while we’re so thankful for all our allies, the A stands for asexual.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-asexuality/ https://news.temple.edu/news/2021-07-06/why-aromantic-and-asexual-people-belong-lgbtqia-community https://www.hrc.org/resources/understanding-the-asexual-community https://www.self.com/story/asexuality-facts https://mcasa.org/newsletters/article/sexual-violence-against-the-asexual-community

[billfarrah]

I’m sorry but does YR being pigeon holed as a “queer show” makes it less high standard of a series for you? YR fits the criteria of a “queer show”, its genre is LGBT - the main couple is same-sex, they added the lesbian couple and other LGBT characters (will Alexander come out as transgender like his real life actor?). Usually, only “queer shows” have this kind of checklist to ensure that practically every LGBT member is represented in a rather prominent way. Anyway, the show is the success it is at the Gaygala because it’s considered a queer show in their eyes. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing to label the show like that.

I never said it made it less of a high standard of a series. I also clarified I don't think it's a bad thing to be labelled a "queer series". What I was saying was in regards to the argument that the show was "less queer" in season 2 isn't exactly fair especially considering the show is about a lot more than just queerness. There's nothing wrong with shows that are mostly about queerness - I'm just saying I don't believe that's the case with YR. Of course it's been successful within the queer community because it is still rare to have shows centre around queer characters and romances, but I don't think it being recognized at the Gay Gala means it has to be seen as a queer show. Wille's issues are not really about his queerness - that's a part of it, but I don't think it was ever intended to be the main focus. It's much more about freedom and privilege and class differences and how your position in society can affect how you live and the decisions you make.

I also don't like viewing the addition of more queer characters as necessarily a "checklist". For me, having a diversity checklist usually means having representation just for the sake of it. Nils being queer is purposeful in the story as he's designed to portray an alternative life path Wille could lead if he chooses to remain closeted. Stella and Rosh being queer does not affect the plot - I just see it as there to give more depth to the side characters and to casually show that other queer characters exist outside of the two mains, which is still rare for shows like this. I don't see it as lip service - I see it as a way to make the universe feel more grounded in reality.

So no, I'm not saying being a queer show is a bad thing at all. I think they're necessary, actually. I was more against the concept that YR has to play to certain "rules" because it's considered a queer show - having queer intimacy scenes or not portraying straight relationships as a focus (I've seen people say the show shouldn't focus on straight relationships because it's a queer show, even though Sara and August are both main characters). That's all I was trying to say. Hope this clears that up.

[012mashi]

If straight people get to have their slice of life nothing fucking happens campy comics/webtoons whatever, why can't queer people?

Boyfriends is a sweet queer poly comic focused on communication between its members. Sure, the ad voices that were pushed on yt/tiktok were quite stereotypical and rather annoying, but who cares? It's not like the whole comic is voiced like that or even voiced at all.

Cringe is subjective. Even representation should never be considered universal. There's no one size rep. There's no universal standard for gay person who only enjoys X kind of media.

You don't have to like it, of course, but different flavors of media can and should co-exist. The weird insistence on one particular subjective kind of "good queer media" is beyond weird. Or that boyfriends is "objectively bad". Who is the almighty queer council that decides that? I would like to speak to them. Please stop putting things in weird arbitrary boxes.

You can't ignore trans man made healthy communication aspects AND THE PORTRAYAL OF A QUEER FUCKING POLY RELATIONSHIP THAT WE GET TO SEE SO OFTEN, SURE. Between different sexualities of mlm nontheless and not a straight guy with two hot women, as it's usually pushed. Put your poly mlm recs in the comments or my asks box, genuinely curious.

Nothing groundbreaking happens, but that's okay. It's literally part of its genre. Are people not familiar with the joke "oh the grocery store arc hits real hard in [slice of life anime]"? It's fluff, it's meant to be fluffy.

The "outrage" feels so forced. And people still digging up old tweets and actions that have been apologized for just proves it. People don't give a shit and just want to be mad, for something, for everything. How about we let people make up for their mistakes, become a better person with more understanding AND move on. That's how growth happens. Queer people are all different, let queer media be different too.

You and you alone are responsible for your media consumption, and no, the silly sweet poly comic is not out to get you. Queer force "backlash" 2.0 I fucking swear.

[olderthannetfic]

I mean there are issues within m/m fanfiction, the problem is the arguments we see take things to the extreme. Either there's no issues and it's just women exploring their sexuality and how dare you mock the things women like! OR It's homophobic how dare straight women fetishize gay men! When in reality there are tropes and trends that do lean more towards homophobia or heteronormativity but there's no space for us (slash fans) to call that out without having to defend against the extremes.

--

This is so hilariously moderate that I think everyone would agree with it if they take it at surface value and don't read into your words.

Anyone who is a veteran of decades of fannish debate will read into your words.

The basic issue is that the conversation people typically want to have about things that are homophobic or heteronormative is pretty 101. They're coming to this fresh with great earnestness, but to someone like me, it's just going to sound like sealioning because we've had these same arguments in slash fandom and in queer communities going back decades.

For example, here are the standard Not Queer Enough bad things that make us just like the breeders according to 80s/90s queer community wank:

marriage

raising children

monogamy

roles of any kind including butch/femme

99% of A/B/O Is Just Het Tho or BL Is Bad Because Ukes wank sounds like all of this over again.

And then there's the eternal fight about whether Pride is for kink and adults and free expression of sexuality or whether it's for corporations and kids in strollers. Conform and kick your less acceptable members to the curb as a political strategy to get rights or be inclusive punk rebels but make fewer strides in legislation? It's a legitimate and eternal struggle in minority groups.

The obsession with Good Representation™ is part of this. So is not liking stuff that overlaps your group with kink and socially unacceptable sexual fantasies. In other words...

RESPECTABILITY POLITICS

.

If somebody sends me an example of a specific fic or trend they think sucks, I'll keep an open mind...

But I can tell you I have yet to hear an argument about any actual fic on AO3 that made me agree it was homophobic or heteronormative rather than just standard porn bullshit that the lizard brain loves.

People are always wringing their hands about shit that is super common in romance novels and erotica and live action pornos alike because audiences love it.

So for example, I really hope nobody expects me to take seriously an argument about m/m fanfic being bad for any of:

penetration = real sex, all other sex = foreplay

virginity is real and matters

ravishment

biology works how is hot and/or convenient to the plot

everyone has a giant dick

safe sex is boring and we're going to pretend STDs don't exist

everyone is a giant nympho slut

everyone is unrealistically monogamous

dick so good it converted someone

kink with zero negotiation first

zero realistic psychological consequences for anything

etc.

Someone's going to go, "Okay, okay, not literally always, but you have to agree that sometimes this trope is bad. Or it's bad that it's like 99% of fics."

No.

No I don't.

At zero times do I agree that it's a problem all porn does the dumb penetration=real sex thing. Yes, it's dumb. Yes, it's unrealistic. It's there because it's hot. If you find it un-hot, write something else.

I'm totally down to have a conversation about which trends are stupid or boring, but homophobic? Heteronormative? LOL.

Fundamentally, every single conversation about problems in m/m fanfic on AO3 starts from the assumption that fic should be looked at from a reader's perspective. This is the reader's whole media diet. They learn queerness from fic. They learn sex ed and biology from fic. They don't have access to other queer media. They're learning the wrong messages. Blah blah blah.

I look at fic as more like someone's porn (or the emotions equivalent) they wrote for themselves in their diary and were nice enough to let others see as a favor. Sure, occasionally, I think "Wow, author, I am so sorry for you that you view bodies and sex this way", but even then, how do I know it's not just that they're a bad writer? The only thing I'm learning from their fic is that some very weird stuff makes me horny. If I have trouble putting that fic in a wider context of realistic queerness or non-fanfic erotica or whatever else, that's my problem, not the writer's.

The only "problem" with m/m fanfiction on AO3 is that I cannot find any first time sex pollen RM/JK A/B/O where they're both alphas and JK is on the bottom and RM feels comedic levels of melodramatic guilt over it while JK's entire internal monologue is just the word "thighs" over and over and over.

[innerstar-u]

why does everyone continue to buy AG when they have shown nothing that supports LGBT? in fact if anything they do the opposite, they represent all homophobic time periods, they have dolls that are against LGBT marriages in their faiths, and if they introduce a muslim doll they too don't accept LGBT. just wondering why everyone cries in this community so much for change they refuse to bring? like I seriously doubt we'll have LGBT character..ever...

You make a lot of assumptions in this ask, which makes me think this is rage bait. If this isn't, my apologies for my own assumption and I hope this post helps you use language around certain social topics better. I'm going to answer this regardless because I think that, even if it's not asked with the best of intentions, the answer may still be helpful to others.

Note: I am using the acronym LGBTQ+ in place of a more blanket umbrella word like "queer" because I know it makes some people in the community uncomfortable, even when used in a way that reclaims it. LGBT are not the only letters represented here, identifying as queer for oneself is totally valid, and that + does matter and is included in this discussion.

First up, there is no such thing as a "homophobic time period". There have always been LGBTQ+ people in history, and there have always been people who were not part of the community who have accepted us. It may not have been so publicly talked about in a given era, and it may have been more socially acceptable to more people to shame or even harm members of the LGBTQ+ community, but the community has always persisted. I recommend Jessica Kellgren-Fozard’s videos on LGBTQ+ history for more info on the topic.  

Your wording is a little funky when you say "all homophobic time periods." I'm not sure if you mean they represent all of the homophobic time periods that exist or if you mean that all the time periods they represent should be labelled as homophobic. Both readings of this are incorrect. See the above paragraph, plus remember that Stonewall and what many today might think of as the beginning of the LGBTQ+ rights movement was in 1969. Julie and Courtney’s stories come later in time. Julie lives in San Francisco of all places, and while the representation is lacking in Courtney’s stories from what I understand (haven’t read them in full yet), the AIDS crisis is still mentioned, even if they divorce it from the gay acceptance issue that it represents. And the LGBTQ+ rights movement didn’t exist in a bubble that suddenly popped in 1969. It existed well before then. 

AG does dance around some important discussions sometimes, but the company is not all bad. I think eventually we will get more gay representation. I don’t think it’ll come soon, especially not in the form of an LGBTQ+ main character, but I think we will get more. We’ve already gotten Kira’s gay aunts and the World By Us LGBTQ+ rights stickers in the community center and with the fridge. That’s absolutely not enough. Bolded for emphasis, and I am absolutely not saying or implying that it’s enough. However, it’s a start. I’m going to keep speaking out saying we need more representation (because that’s the only way we’re going to get anywhere), but I’m also going to reward the behavior we want to see, even if more should be done. 

Another point: it’s wildly inappropriate to speculate on a character’s beliefs based on their faith alone. I recommend this post about Rebecca's faith. Maybe the above anon I'm responding to was the asker on this linked post, or maybe there are two people wondering similar things. Either way, read the post. Read the post and reflect on how nobody following a large religion believes the same as every other person in the same religion. There are plenty of LGBTQ+ Christians, Jews, and Muslims. There are plenty of allies in these religions. And there are thousands of other religions in the world that also include LGBTQ+ people. 

I’m Christian, bi, and trans. I know several other Christians who are part of the LGBTQ+ community. I know Jews and Muslims who are also part of the community. If you’re going to say that all people of faith are against LGBTQ+ rights, you’re barking up the wrong tree. 

[ladywhistleupp]

You have put a lot of words in my mouth and made several assumptions. She wants biological kids which can’t happen in that time period with wlw relationships because IVF and surrogacy don’t exist yet. It would be like adding someone who was going through gender reassignment surgery, something that just didn’t exist and wasn’t possible during this time. Also it does take away representation by erasing the majority ofher story.

It also seems you just wanted to argue with me by your language instead of having a discussion which could have occurred in private. Many LGBTQ+ have agreed that they deserve their own representation not just a erasure of an important story. It also seems like one of your paragraphs seemed to wanna play the “well they made characters black so why can’t they be gay?” which is pitting two marginalized groups against each other. Yeah you may not have said it directly but one can read between the lines based on your wording and repeated use of “diversity”. As a black and arab woman who keeps seeing this argument it’s quite disappointing to hear it from a member of another marginalized group. Also race doesn’t change the ability for one to have biological children with their partner (something that unfortunately two women can’t do without IVF or surrogacy as previously stated).

Marina’s story is not at all the same because she had her children whereas Francesca lost hers and only rejoined the marriage mart to have biological kids which as stated earlier can’t happen with a woman. I have never seen women with infertility issues be represented in media or in Bridgerton but I have seen bisexual and gay relationships represented (Brimsley and Reynolds, Benedict discovering he may like men too). My mother lost my brother soon after his birth and I know she probably would have loved to see the original story because she’s never seen any close representation.

It’s also ridiculous for you to assume what I meant by Eloise being a better choice for a bi or lesbian relationship by claiming I think that because she’s outspoken…. if you met people who actually knew me you’d know I’m outspoken….doesn’t make one a lesbian so why would I ever assume such? If we’re watching the same show as I assume we are you’d know Eloise has never shown any interest in any men so it could make sense for her to end up falling for another woman.

Netflix has also been known to queerbait and add LGBTQ+ characters for a cash grab. This is something I’ve heard from a lot of members of the LGBTQ+ community and it’s been easy to tell. Netflix is a corporation that hasn’t even cared about the actors they hire (the actress who played Marina Thompson had two mental breakdowns during and after season 1 and Netflix provided her with absolutely no support).

Now I think it best to end this argument here because I don’t see us seeing eye to eye on this matter especially when things that were never said are being assumed. For someone saying at the beginning that they weren’t trying to accuse me before going on to do just that I think you should see things from the point of view of women who have miscarried. I don’t know if you’ve read Francesca’s book, but if not I think you should. I’d rather you not reblog this with another argument and instead message me with anything else you would like to add because I don’t know about you but I don’t come to tumblr to argue. There have been others who probably disagreed (and they have every right too) that just scrolled past instead of trying to paint me as a bad person while claiming they weren’t doing exactly that. I hope LGBTQ+ people get representation but I also believe this was a great chance at representation for women who resonate with Francesca’s story that haven’t read the books.

[contains Bridgerton book series spoilers]

I’m going to try to be careful with my words because my intentions are never to upset anyone especially members of a fellow marginalized community that I personally don’t belong too. I am disappointed in the rewriting of Francesca’s story. A big part of her book is her deep love for John Sterling and struggle with infertility. She loved John more than anything and when he died she mourned for yearsss and only rejoined the marriage market because she desperately wanted kids of her own after losing their child. I understand queer representation is important to those in the LGBTQ+ community, but there are many books about LGBTQ+ love that Netflix could adapt into a show or movie. Heartstopper is an example of one they’ve adapted and I’ve seen so many people who love and resonate with that show. Or an alternative would be to make Eloise lesbian/bi because it would make more sense. There’s very little representation in media for women who struggle with infertility and I’ve heard from many women whose favorite book was Francesca’s because of how they related to her struggle. Not only that, but they made her immediately develop a crush on Michaela when in the books it’s Michael who immediately falls for Francesca upon meeting her and he struggles with those feelings when before and especially after John dies. To make Francesca have feelings for Michaela completely diminishes her love for John that makes her mourning so strong. Michael also has a big internal conflict with inheriting the Kilmartin estate after John’s death. This also takes representation from women who have lost their husbands while pregnant with their child(ren). Majority of the people I know who are upset about it aren’t upset because of Francesca’s sexuality but because of how it throws away her whole story. One of my best friends is a black woman who is bi and has read all the books and before I even finished part 2 she was texting me upset because she herself has had a miscarriage and loved Francesca’s story.

[showtoonzfan]

I get we need lots more LGBT+ representation around in the world, but, like,,, media with straight couples is still going to, y’know, exist??? Wether we like it or not. It may be a little redundant and disappointing to see yet a another straight couple, but just because it’s a movie where the two romantic leads are heterosexual, it doesn’t mean that the movie is automatically going to be bad. Hold your judgements for until it releases.

Sorry if my point sounds offensive or muddled, I just wanted to say my piece.

Agreed, and it’s alright. Like…..here’s my gripe.

I get it, I want more gay stories too, but the hypocrisy really shows when people say they want more cultured stories, and then when they finally get that, they bitch because it doesn’t meet their standards. And once again, the damn movie isn’t even OUT yet. Like I can see where the LGBTQ+ community is coming from, but if you’re a person who’s attacking and bitching about a movie that isn’t even out yet simply because it’s a straight story, then I don’t sympathize with you. And yes, I get that people are also sick of the “forbidden love” trope but just because a movie has a trope that’s been used a lot, doesn’t mean it’s going to be bad, so long as it can add something new and creative to the table. We’ll have to wait and see. But yeah, I didn’t want to say this but people really need to wake up. I get that we all want more gay stories, but people need to realize that it’s fucking DISNEY. We’re never going to get an upfront movie that is a love story between two gay characters, at least not now. The closest we have to that are the Disney channel shows like Luz and Amity from the Owl House, and Molly and Libby from The ghost and Molly Mcgee. Disney doesn’t care about gay people, most of the time they have few gay characters only for clout and people need to realize that, like how they hyped up Lefou from the live action version of Beauty and the Beast, only for the “gay scene” to be 2 seconds long. I’m not saying you can’t want for more and demand more, but honestly at this point, if y’all want more gay media, watch something else and don’t turn to Disney, cause they’re mostly greedy assholes. It’s sad, but it’s the truth, I mean look at what Alex Hirsch had to go through when he was writing Gravity Falls, or how Disney cut out a character in Turning Red that was supposed to be trans, and another character that was going to kiss a female.

And don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to sound like I’m saying “oh the people who keep saying “we want more gay stories” should drop it lol”- cause I’m all for wanting to make a change and expanding on storytelling and media, and people deserve to ask for that, it’s just that they’re doing it in the worst way possible. By shitting on a movie that isn’t even out yet, you’re not getting your point across well. If you want to turn to Disney and ask for more stories regarding the LGBTQ+ community, do something like protesting, or making blogs and having your voice heard. Or, you could work on a story yourself. But again, I wouldn’t be so mad had some of the community not once again acted like jerks (not every member, just referring to the people who are mad at this movie because it’s straight). Y’all need to realize that Disney is the last…the LAST company you should expect to provide you with gay media. I do hope they change some day, but it ain’t ganna be now. Just don’t take it up with a movie that isn’t even freaking out yet.

[female-malice]

Isaac Humphries

One of the best feelings in the world is playing a game of professional basketball while on peak form.

You get to perform in front of nearly 10,000 people a night; they’re cheering your name, they’re wearing your jersey. And all while you throw down a powerful dunk and flex to the crowd.

Well, it should be the best feeling in the world, right? And for a brief moment, I guess it was.

That was in 2020. I was 22 and playing with the Adelaide 36ers, two years before signing with my current team, Melbourne United.

Now imagine what happens when all of that adrenalin comes to an end after a game. For me, the euphoria was gone the moment I drove out of the arena. I’d get home to my apartment in Adelaide’s coastal suburb of Henley Beach, and be all alone.

I felt I had no choice but to be by myself. That’s when my wave of depression would hit the hardest.

Over my entire career, there was no reality that existed where I could be an openly gay man while playing basketball. Until now.

I’ve played everywhere – Kentucky, the NBA, Europe, the Australian national team – and it’s all the same: for the most part, being an athlete at that level is about making money, dating girls and being the best basketball player you can be.

So I fell in line, no matter how awkward and weird I felt doing it. I just wanted to fit in and not draw any attention to myself. There were almost no examples of a male pro basketball player doing anything other than that, so I was resigned to the fact that my true life would start after I retired.

My depression got so bad that the idea of not making it to retirement became a very real possibility.

There was a night toward the end of 2020 where my loneliness, self-hate and shame finally took its toll, and I decided it would hurt less to take my own life. I had unfortunately decided it was the end. It was only when I woke up the next morning when I realized what I hadn’t done.

I ended up starting that season like nothing was wrong. But midway through it, some previous leg injuries caught up with me. I was shut down for the remainder of the season and most of the following one too.

Simple things like standing up from a chair or walking up a flight of stairs – let alone any explosive movement while playing – became almost impossible.

Part of the fix was following my strength and conditioning coach, Nik Popovic, to Los Angeles to continue my rehab. We had originally set up shop in Sydney to get through my rehab but he had just gotten a new gig at the University of Southern California; he’s the best in the business so the only way for me to continue making progress in fixing my knee was to join him over there.

LA has always been my favorite place in the world. On top of my basketball career, I’m also a musician, so I’ve been really fortunate to have spent a lot of time there and develop a network of friends and peers.

Being in LA over the years also gave me my first ever experiences seeing members of the LGBTQ+ community in a positive light.

Growing up in Australia, I went to an all-male private school from about the age of 13, where there was an unspoken expectation that everyone was straight – and that was the end of the conversation. Throw in the competitive sports world I was part of, and there were really no avenues for me to see members of the LGBTQ+ community.

Things didn’t change when I became a pro basketball player; LGBTQ+ representation had rarely ever been there in top-tier male-dominated sports, where it’s generally seen as a negative point of difference. Anyone who’s ever been in a locker room understands the sentiments that float around. There’s the unintentional derogatory slang, and ridiculing anything with a gay connotation.

In LA, it was completely different. I was around some of the most successful people in the world – everyone from musicians, television and film producers, media personalities, A-list celebrities – and got to see that being openly gay can come with joy.

For the first time in my life, I saw that people at the top of their game can be open and honest about who they are, and that came with a visceral and contagious happiness.

So while in LA in 2021 to fix my injuries, I also got to experience more of being around the LGBTQ+ community. It was mostly through making friends who were openly gay and unequivocally themselves – shame wasn’t even a consideration.

I learned so much about the experiences people in our community go through, and was shocked at the number of stories that were eerily similar to mine.

I saw that being open about who you are can be the most freeing thing a person can ever do. Being gay didn’t come with shame anymore; it came with liberation.

No one was hiding who they were. And it made for the happiest, most positive environment I didn’t realize existed.

That’s what I hope sports can become. I want it to be a place where anyone can strive to be amazing, without fearing backlash just for who you are.

You can be a gay man and an elite basketball player in one of the best leagues in the world. I’m living proof of that.

My journey to get to this point in my life was harder than it should’ve been, but I wouldn’t change it for the world. Without those dark points, I wouldn’t have been thrust into situations where I had to explore, discover and learn to accept who I really am.

If there are negative aspects that come with my decision to come out, I’ll take those barbs so others don’t have to; as long as it means we make progress along the way and kids in particular feel they can be whoever they want.

I’m so fortunate to be able to do this with this Melbourne United team. It says a lot about the club that I really do feel so comfortable doing this with them. To other sports teams out there, create environments that are welcoming to people of different sexualities, faiths, races. Not only is it the right thing to do, but I promise you’ll get the most out of every person in your organization for it.

I’d also encourage a bit more empathy across the board. A comment here or there might seem funny in the moment, and a sentiment that could be considered anti-gay might appear harmless in the grand scheme of things – but you never know who might be in the room with you and how it might affect that person.

I know what it feels like to grow up in an environment that doesn’t feel welcoming, and I want to do my part to make sure basketball is no longer one of them.

[ultimate-marysue]

So, about Bi Caleb

Warning: very long post, discussing bi representation and biphobia.

*Sorry for spelling errors, English ain’t my firts language.

I can’t believe I have to tell you guys, but anyways: Caleb is bi whether he ends with a male character, a female character on a non binary character. That’s what bi people do, you know? they experience atraction for all genders. Saying that a bi character that ends with someone of the opposite gender is straight and queerbaiting is incredibly biphobic.

Yes, Vax was bisexual. Yes, he ended up with Kiki. Get fucking over it.

Now, I can understand why LGBT+ fans may feel disappointed when they tease a “gay couple” but the “straigth” couple ends up being endgame. Notice the quotation marks because there’s not such thing as a straight or gay couple for a bi person. They are bisexual in both situations, but I can see where the problem comes from. I’ve been queerbaited to hell and back by a lot of shows and it really hurts. It feels like they are laughting at you for caring. But I want those fans (whose feelings are totally valid, don’t get me wrong) to consider a few things when it comes to Critical Role, the first one being: it’s a D&D game.

Let me explain, because I know a lot of CR fans haven’t experienced what D&D is like in real life (and that’s absolutely valid, you don’t need to play D&D to enjoy CR). This is an improvisation game, not an scripted TV show. In a Tv show you can plan ahead of time what ship is going to be endgame, what themes are gonna come up for each character and it’s easier to deeply explore sexuality and gender as different planned arcs. In D&D you character’s sexuality may or may not come up depending on how you play it. Take for instance how other CR character’s have stated their sexuality:

Beau: overtly. Very *In your face* kind of lesbian. Marisha said “fuck it, I really just want to romance girls and be bad ass”

Yasha: openly, but not as in your face. Ashley Jhonson wanted to drink from that WLW cup while also being a shy disaster. Seafood market is her favored terrain.

Caduceus: Our Ace king has never hidden his sexuality, and yet he didn’t mention anything about it until chapter 114. He didn’t had the need to either hide it or state it. He was simply vibing.

I think Liam is going that route with Caleb. He’s flustered by Essek and Edwulf (Come on you guys, he always asks Matthew if he’s still hot). He also had/has a thing for Astrid and a think he might have feels for our favorite Tiefling gal. I know we are all too used to characters being teased as gay/bi only to have execs pull a “haha jk they be straight”. But this is not Sherlock or Supernatural. This is a show that not only has queer rep, but also supports queer organizations and creators. Hell, I’m sure some of the cast members are LGBT (but I’m not here to speculate on real people’s sexuality). If Caleb shows attraction to men he is not just queerbaiting, doing it for fanservicing or tricking the fans in any way shape or form: he’s just portraying a bi character. The thing is, since this is not a TV show, he is not doing it por woke points or to send a message. He’s doing it because he wants to play a bi wizard with depression.

So maybe there will be a point in which he can explores his sexuality more deeply, but remember he is playing a game. And his character is one that has a lot of trouble opening up to his feelings. Caleb is not someone that makes sexual jokes or flirty remarks. He is shy, awkward and has developed a really fucked up sense of love that he is now slowly fixing. Hell, in the same Talks episode Liam explained that Caleb was trained on Honey-pot tactics. Which, for those of you who can’t stand Bond films, means seducing your enemy/target to get information, manipulate them or assassinate them. WHICH IS A REALLY FUCKED UP THING! Let’s remember how he was the one to push Fjord to sleep with Advantica so they could spy on her. That boy has Issues when it comes to relationships. So if we don’t see him being as overtly gay as Beau, Molly or Yasha, well maybe it’s because that’s the way Caleb is. Bi people don’t owe you flamboyance, or dating both guys and gals for your approval. I wouldn’t make a post if it was only that, because I do feel the people who are aching for good bi rep and would love some more explicit confirmation. But Vax exists, so I know we can’t have good things down here.

VAX EXPLICITELY SHOWED ATTRACTION TO GILMORE. AS EXPLICIT AS IT GETS. HE FUCKING KISSED HIM. THEY WERE PRACTICALLY DATING. AND YET SOME OF YOU FUCKERS CALL HIM QUEERBAITING. AND I SAY: NOT ON MY WATCH! NOT ON MY FUCKING WATCH!!

How come a character can have canonically kissed another character in a romantic/sensual context and still be called straight? I know fucking Sherlock traumaticed y’all into having trust issues but believe me when I tell you: I’ts not that deep. This is not a “Haha I love u but in a no homo way bro”. It’s a “full homo darling, but also we’re gonna break up because I like someone else”. This is the opposite of queerbaiting. Instead of keeping a charade he was honest with Gilmore because he valued his feelings and realized that he couldn’t reciprocate them at that moment. And if you try to tell me that Vaxleth was forced and didn’t have a reason to exist except queerbaiting, let me tell you: you are wrong.

Vax saw Gilmore once or twice monthly while he spent a heck ton of time with Kiki. Sure, they didn’t had the kind of camera chemistry Gilmore and Vax had because Keyleth is not charismatic. She’s really awkward, and her relationship with Vax was more on the adorable and dorky side of things. I bring this up because I’m predicting something similar may happen to Shadowgast.

Trust me, I ship the hot wizards as much as any other critter (even though I’m a multishipper). But they haven’t talked to Essek in centuries. I think it may have been almost a month in rol and quite a few outside. And you have to take into account out-rol time to because they are humans (except Tal) playing a game and they forget about stuff (except Marisha and Matt). So Shadowgast may not happen because sure, they had really good chemistry for a month a month ago. People have crushes that die down over time All The Time. So maybe don’t be so butthurt about your ship not being canon that you accuse an ally of homophobia. 

The cast of CR put forward such an amazing representation for the LGBT+ community and it really hurts me that you gets stuck on the one thing that isn’t canon. Matt has created a world in which coming out is not necessary because no one assumes your sexuality. A world in which people respect pronouns and orientations (except Tary’s father, who is a villain). A world in which Cad or Caleb don’t need to explicitly say “I’m ace/bi” unless it comes up in conversation. A world in which his friends can be whatever they want to be without pressure or reprecusions. A world in which they get to explore different gender identities and sexual orientations with full freedom. Let’s not interfere with that (unless there’s missrepresentation), and let them play their game. If you really need mlm or wlw canon couples or more outwardly LGBT+ people you have plenty examples among NPCs and other cast members (Allura and kima, Yasha, Beau, Dairon, Keg, Reani, Tary, Molly and Vax among others).

There’s way worst shows taking LGBT+ cred for barely doing nothing. Fucking Supernatural is the most recent example! Critical Role works towards showing an honest portrayal of LGBT+ folk and accepts valid criticism from their fans on the subject (when they changed J’Mon Sa Ord pronouns from it to they/them). They don’t owe you making your ship canon or portraying their characters the way you want them to (again, unless when it’s constructive criticism). Stop being so Fucking entitled and enjoy the show for what it is

,Respectfully~

*Edit: I´m tagging Caleb’s ships into the post because most hate comes from shipping wars. Most Shadowgast fans are respectful of the cast’s decisions, even if it disappoints them. But since I’ve already seen people accusing Liam of biphobia in that tag and since I’ve already seen this shit with Vaxmore I’m tagging the ship. If you want to read my long ass post do it, if not, ignore it. I’m not forcing you to read it. I’ve also tagged it with biphobia so people can avoid it if it’s triggering. I’m sorry if it makes you mad that your ship is not canon, but that’s not an excuse to be toxic to the cast. Those of you getting mad are the ones that need to read this the most. Like I’ve said in the post: you’re allowed to be disappointed, you are allowed to want more, but you can’t force the cast to give you exactly what you want. And most certainly, you can’t accuse them of  some very serious stuff like biphobia and queerbaiting when it’s not the case..  

[sakps]

As a collection of five homo/bisexuals, we’d like to express an opinion.

We’ve noticed a large portion of people on this app are very hetero-exclusive. This came to mind because of a post I saw about a show called The Sandman. Just a note: I haven’t watched the show. The post was making fun of reviews that were complaining that homosexuality was overdone and shoved down the viewer’s throat. Which, in and of itself, is a valid complaint.

Look, representation is fantastic and we wish more proper representation existed in media. But flooding a show or movie or whatever with nothing but copious, exaggerated amounts of homosexuality and LGBTQ+ topics that are not directly linked to the subject isn’t representation. It’s pandering.

Balance. These things need to have balance. Having everything be entirely straight is a bad thing. Having everything be entirely gay is also a bad thing. Having a show be mostly straight is okay. Having a show be mostly gay is okay. But flooding a show with too much of one side is just shitty. It ruins the representation or doesn’t provide it, and it makes the point of the show convoluted.

Having gay for the sake of gay is perfectly fine and we support that, but distracting from the main point of a piece of media because of the LGBTQ+ parts is just cheap and shitty representation.

Balance matters. The members of our community who adamantly despise and try to remove all forms of heterosexuality from media/their consumption of media are no better than the homophobic people doing the opposite.

Be inclusive. Stop hating straight people for just being straight. Stop hating gay people for just being gay. And for fucks’ sake, have balance.

Having too much homosexuality blasted at you in a show is like taking a cake and smothering it in so much chocolate you can’t see the cake anymore. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

Having no homosexuality excludes members of the community and makes us seem like “others”. It’s like making a chocolate cake with no chocolate. You’re left with kinda shitty bread. This is just straight up a bad thing.

Shows like The Boys do it the right way, with more topics than just homophobia. There are a number of cast members who fall under minority groups, and they are acknowledged for being part of said groups. But that acknowledgement doesn’t overshadow the show itself, or disrupt the plot.

Having a show that’s not explicitly designed to be an exploration of LGBTQ+ subjects filled to the brim with those subjects isn’t representation, it’s idolizing homosexuality. Representation is having members of our community as a part of shows and movies without it being overemphasized on. Overemphasis implies that this representation is a unique event, and not the norm. It should be a “hey there’s a gay couple in this show I like” not “OH MY GOD, THIS SHOW IS ABOUT DINOSAURS BUT WE’VE SPENT THE ENTIRE SHOW LEARNING ABOUT THIS GAY COUPLE. CUZ THEY’RE GAY. AMAZING, THERE’S A GAY COUPLE ON TV”. Pointing it out so hard makes it feel cheap and like you’re treating the gay couple like monkeys in a zoo.

Balance in representation.

[rantingcrocodile]

What do you think of gay people saying that bi people keep talking about het relationships in lgb spaces and therefore don't belong there?

I would agree with them but they keep bringing up examples of bi people talking about ABUSIVE relationships and how glad they are to have found community. Idk. They'd have a point if bi women were talking about how hot men are in wlw spaces or bi men talking about boobs and pussy in mlm spaces but they don't even really do that.

I've also been in some wlw or some both-sex ssa spaces and bi people have talked about their abusive relationships with het partners when it comes in to topic how crazy and terrifying straight people can be.

It makes sense in a space that doesn't allow it at all but most of these spaces do allow it and it's just the members that don't like it.

Probably because selfish individuals of every single label exist and they're that bigoted that they jump at the chance to find a "bad bisexual" and pretend that they're an accurate representation of all of us.

I also think that a lot of it comes down to a lot of biphobes thinking that we deserve being abused, and that when we're raped, it's not as serious or damaging as anyone else being raped. So I wouldn't be surprised if biphobes zone out when bisexuals need to talk about how they've been abused for being bisexual, all to discuss the dangerous biphobia of straight people (particularly straight men), and then the biphobes only hear, "There's another bisexual bringing up her boyfriend again, they're obsessed with talking about all the dick they get."

They don't think that we're even human, remember.

[kestrel-of-herran]

about Vincenzo having a female director, I think it really shows in the drama because not only does the show emphasize how hot SJK as Vincenzo is, it really focuses on Vincenzo as an object of desire instead of Chayoung or any of the female tenants in Geumga Plaza. would that be considered female/feminine gaze? I just like how the women are portrayed and it reverses the roles sometimes you see in kdramas or tv in general.

that plot line in ep. 8 is unfortunate and homophobic from my viewpoint but making Vincenzo the homme fatale falls in line with this too. sorry, that was a lot but I love your posts abt the show very much!

that’s exactly how i see the impact of vincenzo’s female director, anon! i’m happy to know that all the beautiful, aesthetic shots i’ve been appreciating are her doing, and that she’s interpreting the characters along with the actors during filming. and i agree that this is exactly how the female gaze works - if anyone is briefly objectified in this series, it’s vincenzo himself, never the women characters, which is always a pleasure to (not) see. and the script itself is very feminist and focused on the female gaze, with such a wonderful, quirky, flawed, powerful, all-around human character as cha young in the equal position of protagonist alongside vincenzo.

to be perfectly honest, i don’t consider the ep.8 plot homophobic, though i can understand the backlash. as a disclaimer, i’m not a member of the lgbtq+ community, so feel invited to ignore my point on the matter completely, it’s just an opinion!

i enjoyed the homme fatale plot point in that episode, i found it very fitting and refreshing, and i definitely connect it to the female gaze as well! after all, it was literally cha young’s gaze that transformed vincenzo into that role.

but the reason i don’t consider the episode homophobic is because, to me personally, the inclusion of a marginalized character in a negative role is not necessarily meant to equate all characters from that marginalized group with ‘evil’. take a look at myung hee (the prosecutor) for example - just because she is a middle-aged, career-focused woman with no family who loathes the female protagonist and is placed in an exclusively negative role, i don’t consider her representation to be a form of sexism meaning that all unmarried career-focused women are corrupted by their ambition and become less than human. if anything, it is a commentary on what surviving in the patriarchal corporate world can do to a person’s morals. but such women exist, because feminism does not mean that all women are good or that all women should treat each other like sisters, it only means that women are men’s equals, and that includes equals in evil as well as in good. so i’m glad that myung hee is allowed to be a horrible female character, because i love to see that representation as much as i loathe her. (i really recommend margaret atwood’s fiction, particularly the robber bride, for an interrogation of the representation of evil female characters as a form of feminism.)

in the same way, the representation of a rich, abusive homosexual character seems to me a very specific reflection of the fact that relationship abuse can be conducted regardless of the class and gender of the abuser and the victim, instead of a condemnation of all lgbtq+ people as abusers. it’s just such a particular situation - a spoilt rich boy with a bad temper who just happens to be gay - that i can’t take it as a universal representation of homosexuality as something ‘bad’, and i don’t believe it was intended as such.

i think there might even be some positive lgbtq+ representation in the show - mister ahn the nis agent? i’m getting major gay vibes from him. but i agree completely that kdramas need to do more to represent lgbtq+ people, and vincenzo doesn’t have this as its goal.

again, this is only my honest opinion, so please feel free to disagree with me completely. i’m so glad that you enjoy my posts, and thank you for the ask!